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Glenn
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 19,
2014 at 12:03pm
Dee,
Sorry, but you are not correct.
As was said previously there is no pipe at the spring location.
The pipe Bill has shown is not at the site of the spring.
Spring – Well up from below ground; burst forth from
soil; rise from base; originate.
Creek –A small stream; a body of water with a current
confined within a bed and stream banks.
Ned Kelly from the Jerilderie Letter
“We approached the spring as close as we could get to the camp
as the intervening space being clear ground and no
battery…………………………………..
I stopped at the logs and Dan went back to the spring for fear
the troopers would come in that way but I soon heard them coming
up the creek.”
Regardless of personal opinion Ned himself referred to the
spring and creek as two separate identities.
So why argue with him? |
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Horrie
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 19, 2014 at 10:10pm
I don't understand why we
keep getting dragged led back to dictionary and other primary
descriptions of springs and creeks.
So far as I can figure, CSI people put on masks, spin around
three times, and pin a card saying 'SPRING' onto a map.
That darn spring of yours sure moves around a lot!
How can Ned be right about Scanlan and Kennedy "coming up" the
creek, when they left the camp in the opposite direction.
That's like this thread. It goes round and round in circles.
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Glenn
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 20, 2014 at 8:31am
Horrie,
Primary sources keep it real.
Unlike Bill’s tent. The location of the spring has not been
moved around at all. Certainly not by Kelvyn or myself.
So please do not make up
things that are not true.
Can
you please validate this statement?
How can Ned be
right about Scanlan and Kennedy "coming up" the creek, when they
left the camp in the opposite direction.
Some extracts from Constable
McIntyre’s statements from the Beechworth committal hearing:
He (Ned Kelly) said 'when do you
expect these men home?' I said 'I didn’t think they will be home
tonight I think they must have got bushed' and previously he
asked me where were the others and immediately after he came
from the body of Lonigan. I said they were all out.
He said then which direction did they go in? I pointed North
West in the direction of Benalla – I said over there – He said ‘
That’s very strange ‘ well perhaps they will never come back for
there is a good man down the creek and if they fall in with him
you will never see them again
North West is down the creek. |
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bill
Junior Member
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Post by bill on Mar 20, 2014 at 12:37pm
Dee, you have summed it all up in one paragraph.
( end page14)
Kelvyn says" The Spring is on High ground
well away from the pipe"
The high ground would have to be White hill exactly where they
reckon the police tent had stood, so why would Ned send Dan back
to the 'spring' if this was where there were camped?
These so called Crime Scene Investigators CSI seem to have a lot
of problems with what are Primary Sources and communicating
where their spring actually is ? Both Glenn and Kelvyn keep
referring to McIntyre's notes as primary sources when they are
not, except for the notes he made immediately after the
shootings at SBC, anything months, years later is Secondary
sources and cannot be relied upon..
Then Glenn comes back dictionary descriptions of what a creek
and a spring is.
Why is it these CSI gents can't even show us a picture of their
spring like Sheila and Fay on their webpage -
www.ironicon.com.au/validlinks.htm
Picture of spring water in Stringybark Creek
pixmaker.com.au/twohuts/images/stringybarkcreek91104no2.jpg
Now back to the Spring -
What these Crime Scene Investigators don't get is they have to
show us all some pictures of that channel across the road, or
pictures of the proof the existence of a spring there.
I was with the gents and Linton Briggs when he was describing
'that' supposed spring and I coughed and laughed as I walked
away thinking is this bloke nuts? A dribble from rain soaking
ground is not a Spring. A spring is not wet ground running off
over the ground. Crickey!
I think I know a bit about springs. I had already investigated
the Bobinawarrah area south of Wangaratta where the Kelly's had
lived in a Hut for up to a year described by the 1880's news
papers as the the hiding place of the Kelly gang -the Hut behind
the School.
On identifying the site, one local gentleman by the name of
Duncan McCallum (aged around 81) he had said his father had told
him the hut was on a gully with a Spring, and if we could find a
gully with a spring the hut would have been close to it.
The search party was headed by Arthur Hall who was a descendant
of James Wallace 'the headmaster of the school -behind which the
hut had stood. See my webpage for more details
www.denheldid.com/twohuts/bobinawarrahut.htm
They had been trying to find the hut site for many years
previous when I was invited by Marcus Swinburne, a family
descendant that had occupied a farm land in the Oxley valley
near Bobinawarrah, and he asked if I was interested to join the
search and to bring along my metal detector along.
In the party there were descendants of pioneer family Gibb -
Alan and Graham. They said they knew of a 'spring' in a gully
behind their property they knew as sawpit gully in State forest
that had a spring. The Gibb brothers still owned the family
property and interestingly their mother had nursed Jim Kelly,
Ned's brother back to health and had asked if she could take a
picture of him. Perhaps this is why they knew of the hut behind
the school being near a spring, but this is speculation.
Anyway, Alan and Graham Gibb led us to their 'spring' along
Sawpit Gully in what was rocky dry gold type country, and fair
enough here was a rock hole with fresh water in it all year
round.
Back in 1985 that I took 81 year old Billy Stewart to Kelly's
Creek to show him where I had found bullet lead that I am sure
was fired from Kelly guns doing their shooting practice. Old
Bill had been saw miller for the company that had built the
sawmill right over the Kelly hut in 1929 when there were still
remains of it to be seen including fireplace stones.
Billy told me the hut was built there because of the 'spring'
there. Obviously you don't build huts where there is no running
water.
Billy also told me that Stringybark Creek was a spring although
at that time I was not interested in SBC because I was flat out
with Kellys Creek. However 17 years later I came across those 2
huts fireplaces at SBC and wondered about the spring? and
although I can't be sure of the distance now, maybe a hundred
metres up the gully there is a spring. It feed SBC all year
round. The reason they built the two huts there close to the
source of the spring to ensure the water remained pure.
So, I do know a little
about a Spring when then the spring water follows along the
creek and so on.
Now, we continue with the CSI team problems.
I can hardly be bothered trying to continue, but I do so in the
belief something good will come out of this.
Glenn tries to answer Horrie about
Scanlan and Kennedy 'coming back up the creek', when they
departed going down the creek,
Horrie, your post is correct if you think about it.
Glenn keeps referring to Quotes from Court records, McIntyre's
notes and Jerilderie letter to try and give reason why the CSI
teams spot is correct but these are not Primary Sources -but
secondary sources and cannot be relied upon.
Glenn's last post trying to out do Horrie " quoting from
Beechworth committal hearing" two years after the event puzzles
me. -
Glenn keeps saying I keep moving 'my tent around' - while it's
been in the same place ever since I showed the CSI team where it
was - see page
www.ironicon.com.au/images/twohutssouthslopefromroad.jpg
or
www.ironicon.com.au/images/IMGP6703.jpg
Glenn quotes from ' Beechworth committal hearing' McIntyre's
WORDS
I am not sure if Glenn knows what this means- about the
direction Scanlan and Kennedy left.
Mc- " I pointed North West in
the direction of Benalla – I said over there –
He said ( NED said) ‘ That’s
very strange ‘ well perhaps they will never come back for there
is a good man down the creek and if they fall in with him you
will never see them again.
For all who want to do a webpage WORD search for the words 'down
the creek' go to
www.ironicon.com.au/stringybarkckinvestigation.htm
You will all see McIntyre refers mostly to 'Down the creek'
and only up the creek where Dan went to the spring.
Since Glenn posted the quote, this is a question for Glenn,
"There is a good man 'down'
the creek"
Glenn, who do you think that man would have to been down
the creek ?
Bill
PS; We all know Ned sent Dan up the creek to the spring to check
if Scanlan and Kennedy came back that way
www.pixmaker.com.au/twohuts/images/stringybarkcreek91104no2.jpg |
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Last Edit: Mar
20, 2014 at 12:57pm by
bill |
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Glenn
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 20, 2014 at 3:43pm
Bill, I can see that a lot of things puzzle you.
Firstly – I think both Horrie and Dee can answer for themselves.
Without you telling them what to think.
Just because you say so does not mean you are correct.
Re your question – Glenn, who do you think that man would have
to been down the creek ?
Most likely Tom Lloyd.
This is the third time you have debated the spring – without
success. So why go on about it?
Re the tent location. Anyone who really took the time to
study the information would soon see that:
The debate by rights should have finished when you moved the
tent to the only suitable location at your site. N/W corner.
Placing it behind the two posts – the burnt hut.
Your current tent location does not match the descriptions
provided by McIntyre nor the special reporter.
The log angles now make no sense compared to McIntyre's words
The locations of McIntyre and Lonigan make no sense.
The distance from the tent to the attacking party are now
totally different to the locations within your conclusions.
Nor does it now match any of your illustrations or diagrams As
you well know.
11th August 1880. Thomas McIntyre completes a 46 page
statement before W.Foster P.M.
Part of which reads:
"Within a few days after arriving at the Richmond depot. I
made written notes of everything that I could recollect.
……….
Here is a man who made and kept written notes shortly after the
event. So why is it you cannot accept the evidence he provides?
You ignore much of what McIntyre has stated simply because it
does not suit your purpose. Only if it does suit your purpose do
you include it in your findings.
Thomas McIntyre would later recall that:
"Kelly on his removal from the
court expressed his surprise at the completeness of my evidence
but qualified this remark immediately afterwards by stating “But
the – has had nothing else to think about during the last two
years”
In the events like those described in my evidence, however, I
think that minds of most men are abnormally keen and the
incidents connected therewith get indelibly photographed upon
the brain."
By saying that McIntyre got the logs etc wrong as he used the
Burman images to make his detailed diagram is very far fetched.
As he did an excellent job of tying it all together- his words,
diagram, descriptions and placement of the participants.
Or is it just an amazing coincidence that his diagram matches
his descriptions so very well? And is just by chance they match
the location near the current Kelly tree very well?
Furthermore your conclusions are incredibly frustrating and full
of inconsistencies and can only conclude that you are in fact
manipulating the facts for self purpose.
When you can present a more compelling case in a clear and
consistent fashion – let me know. Until then I have no further
interest in what you have to say.
In the meantime you can choose to carry on and entertain those
who care to participate within this forum.
Which I have little doubt you will continue to do. |
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Horrie
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 20, 2014 at 4:42pm
I've been out all day and
will post later if I can provide something useful.
My question about Scanlan and Kennedy was a bit of a test, which
was naughty. I'm still feeling Glenn and Kelvyn out.
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bill
Junior Member
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Post by bill on Mar 20, 2014 at 6:17pm
Glenn,
There is no record of Tom Lloyd being anywhere near StringyBark
creek.
He showed up at Kelly's creek after the event at SBC.
Ned Kelly said Dan was 'up the creek near the 'spring' south to
look out for the returning police in case they came from that
direction.
McIntyre's quote is typically why you cannot rely on secondary
source material.
If Mc was correct stating Dan was at the Spring 'down' the
creek instead of UP the creek, then this demonstrates
why the CSI teams report is all false in its conclusions
Bill |
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Glenn
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 20, 2014 at 9:26pm
Bill
Constable McIntyre’s statements from the Beechworth committal
hearing:
He said then which direction did
they go in? I pointed North West in the direction of Benalla – I
said over there – He said ‘ That’s very strange ‘ well perhaps
they will never come back for there is a good man down the creek
and if they fall in with him you will never see them again."
Note :McIntyre did not say Tom Lloyd was the man down the
creek. He was repeating what Ned had said to him.
I do not have the source of the Tom Lloyd theory but believe it
came from Ian Jones.
How can you or anyone prove that Tom Lloyd showed up at Kelly's
creek after SBC ? Just a question.
Re below. Please provide source and exact wording by McIntyre:
If Mc was correct stating Dan was at the Spring
'down' the creek instead of UP the creek
Again please provide source and exact wording:
Ned Kelly said Dan was 'up the creek near the
'spring' south to look out for the returning police in case they
came from that direction
Where does Ned say up the creek near the spring? I suspect the
word "creek" was conveniently added . |
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Horrie
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 20, 2014 at 11:29pm
Jones's Short Life says Tom
Lloyd was at Bullock Creek most Saturdays (2002: 128). When the
gang returned to Bullock Creek after SBC, Lloyd turned up with
supplies (2002: 139). Jones suggests that Lloyd, Aaron Sherrit,
Wild Wright and others were habitues of Bullock Creek, 'The
Fatal Friendship' 2003: 61-2).
I think Glenn is right though. I remember Jones saying Lloyd was
lurking in the background at SBC - maybe it was in the Cave book
in 1967 (I think; I have lent it and can't check tonight).
Today's Sympathisers don't want any more shooters at SBC though
- four against one at the start was bad enough and skittled the
self-defence theories.
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bill
Junior Member
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Post by bill on Mar 21, 2014 at 11:01am
Glenn asks me to provide the sources for the my
wording -see Glenn's 'quote lines' post above.
Jerilderie letter, -
“We
approached the spring as close as we could get to the camp"
"Dan went back to the spring for
fear the troopers would come in that way but I soon heard them
coming up the creek.”
1, We know the Kelly's came from the South into the police camp.
2 When Ned Kelly told Dan to go 'back' to the spring - means he
went back south to the spring.
By the above we can conclude 'back' means 'up the creek' to the
spring for Dan to keep watch.
If McIntyre was correct - when NED asked him (Mc) the direction
Kennedy and Scanlan had left in, Mc pointed North West- then
quotes Ned as saying-
" 'That’s very strange'
well perhaps they will never come back for there is
a good man down
the creek and if they fall in with him you will
never see them again."
We know there is no creek running North West, Mc can only have
referred to SBC running North South, so if he quotes Ned as
saying 'that's' strange there is a good man 'down the creek' *
-then McIntyre has got his bearings and his recall all wrong if
that good man was Dan Kelly up the creek at the spring.
And, if the CSI team, Linton, Glenn and Kelvyn hang so much
importance to anecdotal evidence to locate their police camp,
then perhaps the CSI's spring should be down the creek north,
not on top of that white hill just south of their site?
With all this we can see the confusion in McIntyre's' account.
McIntyre is recalling the situation of an event that had
happened to him almost two years earlier. He would have been
extremely traumatised at that time as psychologists often say, a
person suffering from a shocking experience (like McIntyre had)
can -will make very wide off the mark recall statements that
cannot necessarily be taken as the truth.
What McIntyre certainly did write and re write every ounce of
his memory of the event, even if later versions differed
slightly from the next. His memoirs published 24 years later are
a remarkable account and we are all the richer for it.
Bill
PS; *
Horrie's reference to Ian Jones saying 'Lloyd was lurking in the
back ground at SBC?' may have come from his conclusion after
reading McIntyre's reported committal hearing, but I think Mc
was just confused.
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Last Edit: Mar
21, 2014 at 11:04am by bill |
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Horrie
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 21, 2014 at 11:51am
Corfield's encyclopaedia
says there was a possibility Tom was at SBC (2003: 313) without
citation, but lists Jones's Short Life as a general source
(Corfield 2003: 315). Cave's 'Ned Kelly: Man and Myth' does not
place Tom at SBC according to the indexed refs to SBC.
Thanks Bill for your continuing helpful remarks.
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Horrie
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 21, 2014 at 12:10pm
Kelson
and McQuilton's 'Kelly Country: A photographic Journey' (page
87) has Tom Lloyd as the man posted down the creek away from the
police camp 'to act as a cockatoo'.
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bill
Junior Member
Posts: 63 |
Post by bill on Mar 21, 2014 at 5:27pm
Thanks Glenn and
Horrie,
1879 -The Outlaws of the
Wombat Ranges , GW Hall
G Wilson Hall was privy to the inner sanctum of the Kelly camp
but makes no mention of Tom Lloyd. ( but stand to be
corrected)
1929, The Complete Inner
History of the Kelly Gang JJ Kenneally, -
JJK was also privy to the inner sanctum of the Kelly
sympathisers and writes his pro Kelly book but makes no mention
of Tom Lloyd. -
Page 53, about SBC -
" Having assumed control
of the police quarters, Ned Kelly dispatched Joe Byrne and Steve
Hart to their own camp to see if there were any signs of Kennedy
and Scanlan. They returned and reported that there was no sign
of the mounted constables."
Page 54
"
Dan Kelly had come back from the
spring, and
the other two had returned from their hasty visit to the
'miners' hut on Kelly's Creek when Ned Kelly heard sounds of
horses coming up the creek."
It would seem that from here on Kelly authors have used Thomas
McIntyre's quote that Ned apparently said this - "
'That’s very strange' well perhaps
they will never come back for there is a good man down the creek
and if they fall in with him you will never see them again."
**
Reported in the Age 6 August 1880, as all false and mis quoted.
He was most probably referring to good man Dan being UP the
creek.
1984 -Keith McMenomy's,-
Ned Kelly, The Authentic Illustrated History,
Page 82-
"It was suspected Tom
Lloyd was there when the police arrived, but was chosen to stay
behind at the hut in case of surprise *. Tom admitted being
there on the Saturday night, said he was bringing supplies and
money from the sale of gold, but arrived after it was all over,
and met them some distance from the scene "
* This may contradict what JJ Kenneally wrote in 1929.
** All contemporary authors basically follow the line of what
McIntyre wrote at Kelly's committal hearing.
This all goes to show we must always use Primary Sources -
closest to the event, only then perhaps if nothing else, use
Secondary Sources.
Why does all this matter? Well, it establishes a true line of
sources to establish where the police camp was located using
primary sources without miss interpretations that always seem to
cloud the truth.
Bill
PS, I
noticed the 'eminent authority' on Ned Kelly - Brian Stevenson
has made a posting on the Eleven Mile Creek thread on this
forum.
Hello Brian, we amateurs would highly appreciate your thoughts
on this SBC discussion. |
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Last Edit: Mar
24, 2014 at 2:43pm by bill |
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Dee
Administrator
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Post by Dee on Mar 23, 2014 at 11:32am
I have just deleted two
posts by "Horrie", at "Horries" request. Afterwards it occurred
to me that the two posts could be by different Guests using the
name Horrie, so I might have been tricked into deleting a Post
that its author didn't want me to delete by someone who wasn't
its author but did. If that is what happened I apologise to the
first Horrie but would send a Julie Bishop Death Stare at Horrie
2.
If you are a Member you can Edit or delete your own posts but it
would seem thats not possible if you're a Guest. "Horrie" has
always posted as a Guest but I would urge Horrie and everyone
else to become a Member so this sort of thing doesn't happen.
Next time such a request comes from a Guest I will not be so
quick to act. Just be sure you really want to post what you've
written before clicking "Create Post" |
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Kelvyn
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 23, 2014 at 11:56am
Dee, If you wish to
re-instate the two posts now deleted and then try to get the
real Horrie to let you know which of the posts (or both) he
agrees is his/hers then just ask as I am sure at least one
person will have been copying the posts and keeping them "safe".
I see in a recent post "we amateurs" is used so at long last a
statement of substance which clearly applies to the author of
the posting. |
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Horrie
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 23, 2014 at 1:49pm
The second post simply
requested the removal of the first, which was a late-night
attempt at humour which was later regretted.
I take your point Dee (but was bamboozled by an earlier, failed
membership attempt). I never claimed to be an IT guru.
Kelvyn - God Bless! |
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Dee
Administrator
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Post by Dee on Mar 23, 2014 at 2:10pm
OK Horrie thanks for that
clarification - Mostly I enjoy your humour but yes, sometimes
its borderline. This episode made me realise that there ARE some
benefits to being a member! Its a requirement that you give us
an email address but believe me I am totally committed to
protecting everyone's privacy. Your call.... |
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bill
Junior Member
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Post by bill on Mar 24, 2014 at 2:33pm
Horrie, I thought your humour was in order. We do
need a few laughs !
The map below shows how the existing walking path from the car
park / picnic ground can be utilised to take the visitor past
the site of the two huts via an elevated board walk taking in
the exact spot where photographer Burman took the photos looking
south. The return walk via SBC road. A plan like this shown with
the yellow lines was submitted to DSE but totally ignored by the
SBC discussion group in favour of the Jones site L .
www.ironicon.com.au/images/SBC38.jpg Click on link
to enlarge
The CSI team claims hut site B where the "Kelly's
shot the Police" , but then the same notation is on another map
one year later - hut site H , but the CSI team had not realised
the two hut plots were 160 metres apart, meaning the surveyor
must have realised the earlier hut site B must have been wrong
for him to re locate it to H, both are wrong because at these
sites there are no slopes comparable to Burman photos.
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Last Edit: Mar
24, 2014 at 2:34pm by bill |
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Kelvyn
Guest
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Post by Guest on Mar 24, 2014 at 3:54pm
THE PARANOIC
once more rambles again with more idiotic irrelevance and shows
his true unambiguous and nuts Jekyll and Hyde persona:
“Why is it these CSI gents can't even show us a picture of their
spring like Sheila and Fay on their webpage”.
Because it adds nothing to the stupid debate you continue to
bore us sh ****ss with Bill.
“Now back to the Spring -
What these Crime Scene Investigators don't get is they have to
show us all some pictures of that channel across the road, or
pictures of the proof the existance [sic] of a spring there”
Better still Bill go and look for yourself, as no doubt others
will.
“I was with the gents and Linton Briggs when he was describing
'that' supposed spring and I coughed and laughed as I walked
away thinking is this bloke nuts? A dribble from rain soaking
ground is not a Spring. A spring is not wet ground running off
over the ground. Crickey!”
Crickey, you are for once absolutely right Bill.
But a clearly observable release of a continual flow of water
(whilst underground water sources are sufficient to make a
spring for the duration of the water source – ie sufficient
rainfall over a length of time which a) soaks the ground to a
depth, then b) needs to discharge the excess water to
groundlevel).
This clearly observable release you are so hung up about from
the close position that you say where you “coughed and laughed”
identified by a gentleman who you now suggest is nuts happened,
and will happen when conditions are right again (may be years
from now, or may be sooner depending on precipitation (that’s
rain to you Bill).
Read the Wikipedia info I provided via a link so you can again
try and understand the basics of permanent and transient springs
!!,
The Spring was observable following the breaking of the drought
throughout the area and the subsequent heavy and continual
rains. Indeed when the spring is active the water discharge (NOT
A PIDDLY DRIBBLE AS YOU SAY) is sufficient for works to have
been undertaken to ensure the roadway is not destroyed by water
flow either flowing North (the clearly observable
contemporaneous water diversion channel over which you must have
driven to place your car where it is in your recent “pipe
Photos” and the for water flow to the South to be moved via the
pipe to the eastern side. And indeed if you were observant some
months ago you surely would have seen the small other water
discharge right on the top of the white hill and which had
caused the eastern verge of the road to become extremely boggy
(but then again probably not as you have a myopic view most of
the time).
I guess then now you sprout such crap that I may make a general
observation that as time passed it became clearer, to your
erstwhile team colleagues, that the Team could not work with a
nut either who appeared to want to listen and observe but who
clearly had no intention other than pushing a couple of rock
piles.
So its nuts to you too.
“I think I know a bit about springs”.
Seems not springs where water is involved Bill. Like so many
other things you seem to know a bit about and which you try to
ram down the throat of those who will not question your views.
You simply cannot accept any matter if it isn’t one you address
in your singularly arrogant and brainless realm of fantasy.
“The Creek is the Spring” – you need to enter this claim in the
next comedy writers’ festival, it’ll give the audience a good
laugh (as it does here).
Go look at four permanent and very well- known springs: –
Dalhousie, The Bubbler , Blanches Cup and Coward. (No creeks to
be seen for 100s of ks). And of course the various Mineral
Springs here in Vic. Purnie Bore is worth a visit when you head
off these Springs. (no creek there either).
Your true colours come out in your ramblings here and previously
in other forums.
Glenn you are butting your head against a wall of fools led by
the master of fooldom.
Your observations are of course absolutely correct and can be
verified by anyone who actually spends time reading statements
and other PRIMARY SOURCE MATERIAL by McIntyre AND OTHERS who as
that tiresome Bill and his rubbish statements would say is a
very primary source of what happened at Stringybark Creek of
course.
Congratulations on your succinct rebuttals of the rubbish from
pseudohorrie (hello Johno) and realbill.
Breaking news in later postings:
Yes, Its Bill again: “we amateurs would highly appreciate your
thoughts on this SBC discussion”
At last, whilst the word amateur has been stated /implied as
applying to the CSI Team now we have an admission by Bill that
he too is merely an amateur.
And from Horrie/johno/Eve some most erudite and appropriate
references; perhaps at last he/she will also now return to
constructive and useful observations and comment. Well done
H/J/E.
Some suggestions for Colryan: 1) piles of rocks but no glitter;
or 2) rock a bye baby; or 3) rock yer socks off billy boy; or 4)
The rock pile mystery .
Go Spy v Spy .
AND NOW A DIAGRAM WITH WORDING ABOUT THE CSI TEAM AND PLACING A
B WHICH IS NOT…NOT..NOT.. IN A CORRECT ORIENTATION OF POSITOIN
DETERMINED BY THE CSI TEAM. WATCH THIS SPACE AS MUCH MORE NOW
NEEDS TO BE SAID IN THIS MATTER TO CORRECT THE CRAP ONCE AGAIN
EMANATING FROM THE PARANOIC DENHELD. |
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