Post by Guest on Mar 14, 2014 at 11:40pm
I hope all your reports sent to the historical societies
contained the important caveat that your team are enthusiastic
amateurs without credentials.
I say this because parts of your report I've seen purport to
provide historical and scientific references. We don't want the
societies being misled, do we?
Post by Guest on Mar 15, 2014 at 10:12am
Good bye Horrie
Post by Guest on Mar 15, 2014 at 2:56pm
Memory Lane (NOTE
forumjar re Ned Kelly ) :
"A tiny glimmer of hope in the
Fitzsimons rehash is his support in the book and on radio of the
Bill Denheld Stringybark Creek 'Police Murders' site. "
Anyone with a brain has long supported Bill.
by OBVIOUS Sat Nov 09 15:09:41 UTC 2013"
Post by bill on Mar 15, 2014 at 9:35pm
Regarding the CSI
Just got back from up north, Carla and I swung past SBC to take
that picture of that horrid PIPE that Glenn and Kelvyn so
strongly denied existed !
this is what I wrote Page 2 - 20 Feb 2014 about the PIPE,
" However what the CSI team
refer to being their 'Spring' would later become one of those
bogs where natural water run off formed a little soggy bit of
ground - this was just down a little dip south of the Kelly tree
today it runs under the road from west to east through a six
inch pipe. But if this was the likely spring
referred to by CSI team, there would be little need for Dan
Kelly to go there in case the police came back from that
direction, because if the Kelly tree site was where the police
had camped, Dan would not have needed to have gone 'down' to
this hollow 'spring', rather Dan would have just needed to get a
view across that low spot to see if the police came from that
If this is not
proof enough the CSI@SBC spring is nonsense, I'd be happy to be
a monkey's uncle. Bill
SECOND, is Glenn's reply, Page 2 - 21 Feb
quote- " Behind this location the surrounding hills form
something like a little valley, the ground in this area is hard,
the water collected makes it’s way down under the surface to
form the spring. Much as it does with there creeks in the area.
From there it makes it way both under
and over the road
down towards the creek. ( I know nothing of a 6”
pipe under the road though. This may have been put there in the
last 4 months)"
THIRD, is Kelvyn's post about the PIPE - 11 March 2014
I recall (and it was not you but someone else - I think it was
Horrie who seems to be well out of touch with the precinct,
recently made a statement that a pipe was under the SBC Road;
and that the area was a "mess" (or words to that effect). Well I
will put this to rest as both statements are absolute rubbish.
Having arranged for an inspection of the roadway during the
recent long break I can absolutely say there is NO PIPE, BUT
there is a significant water diversion channel at the low point
of the down slope.
Fourth, is 'Veritas' 13 March 2014
Who recaps but sounds like Kelvyn mixed up with Brian who
addresses me as Mr.
post by Veritas -
"It is interesting when time is taken to flick backwards through
a jumble of postings, and try to understand some of the posts
and what they are saying. I see Kelvyn has continually had to
tell Mr Denheld about his very poor attempts to associate some
of the names used here with what he refers to as pseudos and I
now get a funny feeling that
Horrie (seems more appropriate to say Horrible) may indeed be a
pseudo for the Denheld crowd or the leader himself. Horrie
points out a pipe exists, Kelvyn says he and others could not
find a pipe but then of course Mr Denheld launches into another
rant about the pipe and how he will get a photograph for Kelvyn.
Why couldn't a grown man like Horrie reply?
Mr Denheld also says the CSI pipe - does this mean that the pipe
is where the CSI team have said there is a spring? I see that
Kelvyn has explained how the road now has a water runoff
diversion drain to send water from the spring's outflow across
the road and run it off towards the Creek. This is without doubt
the work of road maintenance people to ensure the road does not
get rutted by water flowing over it (this water would be coming
off the downward slope and if allowed to continue along the road
make the road looking North pretty uncomfortable for drivers and
of course mean road maintenance would become a problem for the
shire council or whoever maintains the road.
I must also say that a spring is clearly near the CSI teams site
and its a real spring; not this stupid concept that Stringybark
Creek is a spring just because it disappears below ground at
some point. Its as sure as hell, that the creek flows along its
course from up at the Old Tolmie Road (which can become almost
impassable at times due to water crossing it at the head of the
creek, the water coming from the property on the other side of
the old road. Its stupid to say that just because a Creeks water
goes underground for part of the way that when the water comes
back to ground level that this is a spring. An underground river
or creek is just that and not a spring.
I read somewhere that Ned sent his brother to the spring to
watch for the policemen . Jeez you wouldn't go to the lower
ground to keep a watch, so the spring on the high side of
Stringybark Creek Road fits perfectly.
Well thanks Gents,
Please take a close look at these pictures of the PIPE.
Last Edit: Mar
15, 2014 at 9:41pm by
bill: I did not get enough time to edit for BOLD
Post by Guest on Mar 15, 2014 at 10:03pm
Oh dear, now the CSI codgers
and Pooflower will have to ring the historical societies next
week, asking them to pulp their reports!
Post by Guest on Mar 16, 2014 at 4:10pm
couldn't find the pipe so thanks indeed to you and Carla..
Thanks for noting the position of it. To the South of the spring
discharge runoff to the roadside.
Now as to the spring: You clearly haven't read postings
somewhere (too many forums with too much rubbish between
postings of substance to waste time trying to find the info
posted about the "CSI Spring" but it was).
Let me just recap - There are two types of PRIMARY Spring
formations - those that have permanent underground water as a
source - an underground water stream such as the Great Artesian
Basin where mound springs are active continuously and have been
for 1000's of years in some instances. Other springs – Seepage
or filtration springs. The term seep refers to springs with
small flow rates in which the source water has filtered into
permeable earth and are active only after sufficient water is
built up underground from rainfall and which will not be seen as
active springs until the ground is sufficiently waterlogged to
allow water to reach the ground level. The spring or springs
will then have an active water flow until such time as the water
underground "dries out" from lack of sufficient rainfall to once
again build up the water table.
This is in fact the form of the spring at Stringybark Creek; and
as the CSI team was able to clearly show the spring was active
recently and was producing sufficient water for a constant
outflow to the western side of the road and which then flowed
northward (hence the now created water diversion channel to get
the water to the eastern side of the road when the spring is
Here is a reference you should consult:
So thank you for showing the pipe.
It simply confirms that as we said the spring is near the CSI
It is also clearly obvious that the water underground whilst not
always reaching ground level is maintaining a corridor of ground
which stretches to the Creek from the head of the spring water
and within which the conditions of ground dampness have enabled
both the spear grass and also swamp gums to flourish – this
corridor can be “mapped” because of the vegetation surviving
If you spend time in the bush on the western side of the road
and in the immediate area of the spring discharge you will be
able to see mounded heaps of logs which were once magnificent
specimens of swamp gums now destroyed when the western bank was
bulldozed for fire control some years ago.
A Spring is a spring. A Creek is a creek!!
Oh and Horrie (MR ?, or whatever ?) seems you also fall into
Bill’s earlier complaint about posters not using their correct
identity. I do hope you fix this soon otherwise you will
continue to draw the ire of BD.
You are indeed a clown and I doubt such a bad one that you would
never get employment in any circus let alone as a researcher
(even Google would be a start for you perhaps). I assume you got
past first grade and can read but its obvious your comprehension
skills are of a very poor level indeed.
Post by Guest on Mar 16, 2014 at 10:42pm
Kel, I've had to correct you
before that 'Gahnia Sieberiana' isn't spear grass (line 12 from
the bottom of your interminable post) but Swordgrass. Bill has
shown you where the pipe is that you couldn't find.
If you like, I can lend you a shredder for your reports.
Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2014 at 10:08am
The images shown above are not the site of the spring.
As you well know! The spring is located behind the camera
further up the white hill.
There is no pipe at the spring location.
Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2014 at 1:10pm
I concur with Kelvyn and Glenn that these photos
are nowhere near the spring and just more smoke and mirrors by
Bill. There is a dip in the road there where water run-off
collects after rain and used to flood the road. The spring is on
higher ground well to the forefront of the photo to the north. I
knew of this pipe and it has never been mentioned before because
it is irrelevant. Horrie if you had ever been to SBC like you
claim you would know all this.
Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2014 at 1:37pm
Keep it up
Horrie, if you can.
More idiotic comment from someone who I suspect is not even
living in Australia so getting to Stringybark Creek will cost a
bit of airfare money.
Yes Bill has at last made a contribution to the work done by the
CSI Team to find and ensure the place is given full assessment
by those who make decisions about heritage sites unlike you who
wouldn't have the brains to be able to read a compass, let-alone
any comprehension skills to apply to any matter whatsoever.
Please look after the remaining Kiwis.
See you boyo.
Thanks Brendon, it is a technique used by BD to attempt to
deflect attention from the work of the CSI Team and others as he
is more and more isolated from reality and support (other than
crackpots using pseudo names aka Horrie and I would now suspect
D is also a pseudo.
And so now Bill has provided the southern end of an area subject
to runoff from the seasonal spring. Of course the northern end
is demarked by the extensive water channel across the road which
I have previously described.
BD has a mention in the CSI report's acknowledgements so he
should now be chuffed that he has provided a bit more PRIMARY
Post by bill on Mar 17, 2014 at 4:02pm
What a problem for the CSI team,
There was no pipe according to these fellows who are now getting
Glenn, Kelvyn you are supposed to gentlemen presenting your
'Stuff UP' but all we get is continues mumbo jumbo for the pair
of you and now also from Brendan, or is it Brian, or is it
Veritas? or is it?
"there is a dip in the road where the spring is"
"The spring is behind the camera further up the white
hill. There is no pipe at the spring location"
" Of course the northern end is demarked by the extensive
water channel across the road which I have previously
Well thanks Gents
Here is the White Hill picture on which there should be a
'spring' ? Can you please copy the image and re post it here to
show us all where that 'extensive water channel and Spring
across the road happens to be?
Where is that mysterious spring? What a joke.
Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2014 at 4:51pm
Kelvyn, instead of echoing and egging Mick on,
you should be counselling the poor fellow. Kelly thugs (I don't
mean you or him) always seem to have problems helping their
'mates'. Mick claims he knows all you CSI guys personally. He is
heading for personal disaster in my humble opinion.
Your kiwi guesswork and dumb cracks are really stupid. I'm
Victorian and very proud of it.
CSI are phony 'johnies come lately' to the SBC debate. You're
lost in the thickets. Bill has the 'Big Picture'. No wonder! He
virtually lives there.
Post by Dee on Mar 17, 2014 at 5:38pm
Looks like you've solved the
problem of how to post pics on the Forum Bill! You say the two
photos of the road are both looking south from near the Kelly
Tree. They look like different parts of the road to me. What am
Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:12pm
Bill you say
"there is a dip in the road where the spring is"
No I didn’t Bill,
what I said was -
There is a dip in
the road there where water run-off collects after rain and used
to flood the road.
spring is on higher ground well to the forefront of the photo to
you post a map showing your site, the CSI site and where exactly
these photos were taken so that those who have never been there
like Dee and Horrie will know what you are trying to say? Also
point out the dip in the road.
correct when he said –
"The spring is
behind the camera further up the white hill. There is no pipe at
the spring location"
Bill by the CSI
Team stating a ‘spring’, they do not mean a creek like you do,
so of course there is no ‘creek’ crossing the road. They mean a
‘spring’, where water comes forth from the ground. There is a
big difference between a spring and a creek and you just don’t
who is Mick? Are you trying to divert this topic again with
Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2014 at 6:36pm
you put a picture up of the road facing South and which is taken
from the North side of the roadside sign which stands close by
to the marked entry to the carpark its "twin" facing south can
be seen in the background of the photo you have posted) then
that photo will clearly show the road water diversion work and
the spread of some road metal immediately to the North side of
the "speed hump", ie the embankment formed by the creation of
the water diversion which diverts the water running down the
"white" rise towards North from the western side of the road to
the eastern side allowing the water to flow then into the
If you spent enough time there to get a picture of the pipe (the
Eastern side of the road outlet, so where is the picture of the
Western side pipe opening? and you have a copy as you claim of
an early draft of the CSI report which has more than enough
information for you to correctly position your camera on the
road to cover the ground - the spring position is shown also in
the CSI diagram's so why do you persist with misleading
Helpful hint: Try standing halfway along the car park boundary,
on the centre line of the road and take some photos facing
South. All then will be obvious.
Post by Guest on Mar 17, 2014 at 7:00pm
"What a problem for the CSI team,
There was no pipe according to these fellows who are now getting
See other posts, the CSI team has never said there was a pipe or
water diversion AT THE SPRING's LOCATION.
DMR road maintenance work, as any road maintenance crews would
do, has been to place a pipe at a lower point than the immediate
flow "outlet" onto the road to ensure the diversion was as
successful as possible in diverting all water runoff , hence the
recently constructed water diversion on the northern side of the
Get yourself up into some high country tracks Bill and you will
observe this method of water "control" used extensively to
ensure tracks are not eroded the length of them.
You say you have many years of visiting the Creek so you must
surely be able to remember before the current road formation
when the track/road reached the high point of the white hill and
lo-and-behold there were times the track became impassable due
to a large area of soft, water logged track (Charlie Engleke in
correspondence and phone discussions described the impossible
conditions this caused; such that using the track was not
feasible, by vehicle).
Yes indeed another outbreak of a spring right on the crest of
the ‘hill” (which was also seen as a very wet area in the road
and with considerable boggy ground on the eastern edge of the
road during the last outbreak of the spring(s). For absolute
clarity – this is not the large spring found by the CSI Team.
And No Bill, not touchy, simply exasperated at your rubbish
which you pursue against all evidence which you cannot rebut.
Post by bill on Mar 17, 2014 at 9:03pm
Successfully posting pictures remains changeable. Sometimes it
works, sometimes it does not. Mostly edit time is too short
before having to re edit again and again.
Regarding the images of SBC road.
I don't understand when you say 'Have I missed something' ?
They are two different parts of the same road. You are missing
If you look at the last picture showing the same road but from
about 100 metres further North of the other pictures posted-
shows the exact the area where CSI reckon their spring should
Dee and readers, these fellows are absolutely having us all on.
There is no spring there. They are hoodwinking this whole forum
with their balony. Who is Brendan all of a sudden, he seems to
know more than the other two.
Dee, Look at the end of the arrow 'White hill', is where the CSI
team say there is a Spring or somewhere near that sign between
Red hill arrow and the White hill arrow.
It is all nonsense to say there is a spring there. I had parked
my car just down from that sign looking down the road to take
the photos where Carla stands at the bottom near that pipe.
That pipe, if there was a 'spring' anywhere along that road
would channel down the right hand side road cutter to the pipe,
turn left under the road and out the end but you can see there
is no water in the pipe. There is no spring there.
The last picture was taken near the Kelly tree overlooking where
the CSI team say there is a 'SPRING'. No spring is on that white
All the previous postings by these fellows are just smoke screen
padding to make the reader believe these posters are telling you
something, but its all baloney. How can there be a Spring water
crossing the road when there is a cutter along the road to take
all rain shower water down like along any suburban street or
road and call that water a spring? Its all baloney.
Dee, This is not a place where anyone can have a debate because
these people posting are idiotic and are only interested in
preserving their pride and face saving.
Perhaps I will stop here as they will not put their 'Stuff Up'.
They are wasting everyone's time to the enth degree only so they
can have the last word without any substance or validity to
their postings. They are scientifically laughable not worthy of
Last Edit: Mar
17, 2014 at 9:07pm by
Post by Guest on Mar 18, 2014 at 7:33pm
I WILL HAVE
TO AGAIN SIMPLY SAY THIS:
THE CSI TEAM HAS NEVER SAID THE SPRING IS "HERE" AS YOU ONCE
MORE INCORRECTLY, AND I SUGGEST MALICIOUSLY, CONTINUE TO UTTER
WORDS WHICH HAVE NEVER BEEN SAID BY THE TEAM AS FAR AS YOU
SUGGEST THAT THE SPRING IS AT THE SITE OF THE PIPE.
IT IS NOT, (A SIMPLE THREE LETTER WORD BILL THAT CLEARLY YOU
SIT DOWN AND SLOW DOWN AND READ AND COMPREHEND THE RECENT
POSTINGS TELLING YOU WHAT THE CSI TEAM HAS FOUND AND WHERE IT
SO ONCE MORE FOR YOU TO ABSORB THE FACTS - THE SPRING IS ON HIGH
GROUND WELL AWAY FROM THE PIPE OF WHICH YOU ARE NOW OBSESSED
BY-THE-WAY YOU SEEM TO BE UNABLE TO ADDRESS THE QUESTION OF THE
PIPE WESTERN SIDE OPENING, AND IT SEEMS SIMPLY OBLIVIOUS TO THE
VEWRY PROMINENT FEATURE EXPLAINED TO YOU CONCERNING THE WORK OF
THE DMR ROAD WORKERS MAKING A SIGNIFICANT WATER DIVERSION
CHANNEL TO THE NORTH OF YOUR OBSESSIVE PIPE AND ON THE NORTHERN
DOWNSIDE OF THE RISING GROUND (THATS A HILL, BILL)
MAYBE YOU HAVE CAUGHT OPD (ALL CLUES ARE HEREIN).
KEEP IT UP IF YOU MUST BILL. THE MORE RUBBISH YOU GO ON WITH THE
MORE YOUR CREDIBILITY IS ON DISPLAY FOR ALL TO SEE.
ITS A JOKE JOYCE: WHICH WAS AN OFTEN USED PHRASE BY TV THESPIANS
OF DAYS NOW GONE.
Post by Dee on Mar 18, 2014 at 8:32pm
In regard to the pipe, when
Bill claimed it existed, Kelvyn and Veritas and Brendon
rubbished Bill and said there was no such thing. Glenn said he
had never seen one. So Bill went there and took the photos that
prove he was right : there is a Pipe. So in my view, Bills
credibility is enhanced Kelvyn - he clearly has an amazing and
detailed knowledge of the place. What he claimed about the pipe
was not rubbish or a rant ( Veritas) but accurate knowledge.
Now what has the pipe to do with anything anyway? My
understanding of what has been posted about it so far is not
that the CSI spring is necessarily right near the pipe, but the
run off from it ( the CSI Spring) will naturally flow down
toward the road then get channelled along the edge of the road
along the DMR created channels, and then eventually reach the
pipe to pass under the road to the eastern side and thence
eventually into SBC. The fact that no water is coming out of the
pipe demonstrates the highly intermittent nature of the CSI
Spring, whereas Bills spring (SBC) is continuously flowing and
therefore according to Bill better qualifies as "the" Spring. Is
that about right? Thanks for posting some more great photos
All I am really saying is that I think as far as the pipe is
concerned Bill has been proven correct. As far as where the real
site is, people have been arguing about evolution for over a
century and the existence of god for millennia, so I guess
there's no real hurry!