This is a copy of KC Forum thread SBC News and Views page12

Fitzy
Advanced Member

Australia
172 Posts

Posted - 23/10/2010 : 20:42:20

My Dear McIntyre,

From all your postings, quotes and other relevant data, one thing does appear to be apparent. Joe and Steve were not involved in the shootings at SBC. All references to the conflict only mention Ned and Dan, apart from when Joe and Steve arrived after hearing the ‘one’ shot that felled Lonigan. After a short period, both Joe and Steve returned to their own hut in case the police came across it.

The story of being attacked by 4 desperate outlaws makes it appear that the police were outnumbered when in fact they were not. A fair fight ensued when individuals decided did not heed the warning to bail up and attempted to shoot Ned and Dan. Ned and Dan fired in self-defense, but that would not suit the police force of politician of the day, would it my good man?

Fitzy

Fitzy
Advanced Member

Australia
172 Posts

Posted - 26/10/2010 : 06:19:47

G'day Gang,

Are there any reports of the gathering at SBC last Sunday? I 'm sure there are a few of us would like to know what we missed.

Fitzy.

kenny t
Senior Member

Australia
29 Posts

Posted - 27/10/2010 : 20:14:43

Hi
I was just having a thinking moment and wonder if anyone out there has done any research on the type of tent that was used by the police at the Stringybark Creek Camp.
In particular whether it contained any metal parts such as eyelets, pegs, poles etc. It must have been a sizable tent if was to accomondate the 4 policemen.
As the tent was burn't by the kelly's soon after and if there was any metal and souvenier hunters not removed anything, there may be some answers just laying there waiting to be discovered.
I would think that the tent design would be a standard Police issue type.
Can anyone help with this?
keeny t

Joe.D
Advanced Member

Australia
779 Posts

Posted - 27/10/2010 : 20:24:42

Hiya Ken,

Bob Ellis from BOJO CANVAS PRODUCTS may help.

Ph: 0412 368 034

email: ellisgray@mcmedia.com.au

Joe.D

www.kellyhaunts.org

Fitzy
Advanced Member

Australia
174 Posts

Posted - 27/10/2010 : 20:47:16

G'day Kenny,

Good point! I hadn't even thought of the burning of the tent. They would have had to have had eyelets of some kind.

Still waiting on a SBC report from the 24th from those who went.

Fitzy.

Darren Sutton
Senior Member

Australia
28 Posts

Posted - 27/10/2010 : 23:13:25

Intersting point Fitzy. It would depend on who made the tent as many tents of that era did not use eyelets or other metal parts. Reinforcing, tabs, and loops were either extra thickness canvas or duck or leather sewn in. I made a replica tent some years ago from a pattern from the 1870's and it did not use metals. However in the late 1870's some tents possibly did start to use eyelets. I will go through some stuff I have on tents also and see if I can help.
Cheers,
Darren Sutton

Fitzy
Advanced Member

Australia
174 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2010 : 00:16:10

G'day Darren,

Thanks for that info. That's the beauty of forums like this (and this is one of the best), is everyone can throw up new ideas, opinions or share their knowledge on subjects as you have just done. Some may disagree with the questioning of supposed known facts, though whilst we still question them, we keep the subject of the Kelly Gang alive and only looking for the truth. I strongly disagree with murder at SBC and believe it was self-defence.

Fitzy.

bill denheld
Advanced Member

Australia
157 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2010 : 11:46:39

Hello Fitzy and all,
It was a wonderful day with Gordon Byrne who is a member of ' The Antique & Historical Arms Collectors Guild of Victoria' telling the story of the Spencer Carbine rifle with Terry Scott showing his bullet and where he found it 14 years ago while prospecting for gold. Gordon confirmed Terry's bullet fitted the bore size and rifling groves like a glove.

There were a good dozen and more including Yvonne Monk and nephew Sean Monk, important to the story for Edward (Ted )Monk ( G Grandfather) showed F.C. Burman the shooting site after leading the police party to recover the bodies of the dead police.

After lunch the group led by myself ventured over to the various sites where I set up the Viewer Scope to look through so all could compare the view with the Burman photo.
It was very disappointing that not one of the Kelly tree sites group turned up to PUT their argument. If they had such determination to prove the two huts site wrong why weren't any of them there to prove their case? The only forum member there was KennyT.

http://ironicon.com.au/twohuts/images/spencercarbinebullet2326.jpg
The bullet that fits the gun, Terry Scott holds the bullet that fits the antique Spencer Carbine rifle owned by collector Gordon Byrne.

http://ironicon.com.au/twohuts/images/viewerscope2340.jpg

Pictured are some of the group lined up to look through the viewer scope near the Kelly tree which all agreed showed it did not compare with the Burman photograph and therefore it is not the site.

Bill

kenny t
Senior Member

Australia
32 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2010 : 22:16:50

I think there is a Police Historical Society or it might be the Police Museum. I will try and contact them to see if they have any info on Tents that were used by the Police during this time.
Because the search party left from Mansfield and it was a planned search, there maybe an inventory checklist of supplies and equipment needed. This may have been written down.
Just a thought.
kenny t

Fitzy
Advanced Member

Australia
178 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2010 : 22:54:13

G'day Kenny,

The e-mail address is:< http://directory.archivists.org.au/archives/393/ >
Formerly the Police Historical Unit.

Fitzy

kenny t
Senior Member

Australia
32 Posts

Posted - 28/10/2010 : 23:41:50

Thanks Fitzy
I looked it up and it has a phone or fax contact, no email for enquiries. I will give them a ring when I get a chance.
Joe has also given me a lead as well.
kenny t

Joe.D
Advanced Member

Australia
781 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2010 : 00:05:05

Hi ken,

Yep I had a brief chat with Bob Ellis a while back and he really knows his stuff.......hope you can come up with something. I've attached a pic of one of Bob's tent, I had a few more but somehow I misplaced them.

Let us know how you go

Joe.D

Edited by - Joe.D on 29/10/2010 00:07:32

Kelvyn
Advanced Member

Australia
99 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2010 : 15:08:54

The Victoria Police Historical Society can be contacted by e-mail ralphstavely@optusnet.com.au
Ralph is the President and his mobile is 0432 622 061

kenny t
Senior Member

Australia
32 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2010 : 16:36:54

Thanks Kel for the email link to the President of the Police Historical Society.
I will let people know if I can find anything out.
kenny t

Fitzy
Advanced Member

Australia
178 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2010 : 16:44:07

G'day Gang,

There's no doubt about you Joe, always coming up with interesting bits and pieces. Great pic of the tent. Doesn't look like it has any metal eyelets.

Another source is;-

quote:

“The Colonial Police Historical Research Group”.

CONVENER:
Cesar Ziccone
0412 353 747
cjsp@bigpond.com

SECRETARY:
David Clark
0417 543 828
SIX.NINETY@optusnet.com.au

This member only has a phone contact he is our 'Living History group Authenticity Officer' Stuart Duff Mobile 0411 335 878

Stuey really knows his stuff and very helpful.

Fitzy.

quote:

Fitzy
Advanced Member

Australia
178 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2010 : 16:46:29

G'day Bill,

Thanks for your post of SBC on the 24th. Sounds like a good time had by all and looks like the weather was kind to you all as well.

Fitzy.

Joe.D
Advanced Member

Australia
781 Posts

Posted - 29/10/2010 : 17:20:18

Hi all,

Fitzy I just had a quick look at the original photo to confirm......yes it does appear to have metal eyelets. Note the rod going the eyelet its metal. Also the stitching is re-inforced around the eyelet.........obviously.

Bill, yep thx for sharing.........one question.

What was the feedback from those that attended? do they agree with you findings? I'm sure we're all keen to hear about their feedback.......providing of course they shared their thoughts with you.

Joe.D

bill denheld
Advanced Member

Australia
158 Posts

Posted - 30/10/2010 : 19:15:11

Hello all,
Fitzy and Joe
Joe asks

quote:

What was the feedback from those that attended? do they agree with you findings?

Joe, if you read whats written under my last picture where the group lined up to look through the viewer scope near the Kelly tree you will read this site is negative.

All present were agreeable with the Burman photo viewer scope comparison at the two huts site. Many historical written statements for orientation were discussed at the various sites with Kenny agreeing with orientations. Seeing the two huts site through the viewer scope is conclusive all agreed, and later Kenny said he had a few distance issues but he should speak for himself.

In my previous posting I should have mentioned that Gordon Byrne is a member of ‘The Antique & Historical Arms Collectors Guild of Victoria researching the use of Spencer Carbines as imported to Australia, purchased and used by Vic Police for Gold Escort in the Colony and in the pursuit of Bushrangers from 1864 till circa 1880.

Also, on my SBC the Authentic location link at www dot ironicon dot com dot au www.ironicon.com.au
I have uploaded a map showing the key points numbered.

Bill

Joe.D
Advanced Member

Australia
782 Posts

Posted - 30/10/2010 : 19:46:02

Hi Bill,

Thx for the reply.

You wrote......

Pictured are some of the group lined up to look through the viewer scope near the Kelly tree which all agreed showed it did not compare with the Burman photograph and therefore it is not the site.

But there was no mention about their thoughts/feedback on your two hut site until now your most recent post, as follows........All present were agreeable with the Burman photo viewer scope comparison at the two huts site.

Interesting feedback again thanks for your reply.

Joe.d

kenny t
Senior Member

Australia
33 Posts

Posted - 30/10/2010 : 20:59:33

Hi all
I have sent off an email to the President of Police Historical Society in regards the tent and any other info which might be known in preparation of supplies etc for the search party in pursuit of the Kelly's.
Hopefully there is some info around. I will let people know of any outcomes.

Last weekend, I went up to SBC to basically listen to the various points of view and to see first hand what forum members had to say in regards the Police Camp at Stringybark Creek.
I met in person Bill and Cara for the first time and thank them for the amount of work and preparation they put into the day.
Bill took the group to 4 separate locations with the view finder and a blown up pic of burman's photo. At each site he explained the background of why these sites were considered. He spent around 15 - 20 minutes at each location (including the 2 hut site. Bill was mostly comparing the slope of each site in the view finder and didn't really consider spear grass, distances to creek etc.
Based on the slope and Burman's photo, the 2 huts sites fit. Also where the Spencer Bullet was found (just north on the edge of some swampy ground)puts it in close proximy to the 2 huts site.
My impression of this 2 hut site and Ian Jones on the other side of the creek is that the area could be too small. I am not sure who said it but I was under the impression that they camped in a cleared area of 1 - 2 acres. This area is bordered by the creek, the slope to the south, the rise to the west (road) and the swampy ground to the north.
Also the location of Kennedy's body? I still have trouble understanding how he got so far through the bush being shot at and pursured by the kelly's. Bill did take the group to where he believes Kennedy was found. This location is the furthest location from the 2 hut site as well as Ian Jones site. The Present Kelly tree site is certainly much closer and flater.
I feel we should get some distances to see if this location is around 400 - 500 metres. We could measure this distance from each of the sites to German Creek?
It is a shame the other forum members could not make it on the day.
The guests that came along were very interesting and it was exciting to see the bullet and get a chance to view and hold a Spencer Rifle.
I still have an open mind though.

Sheila Hutchinson
Advanced Member

Australia
78 Posts

Posted - 30/10/2010 : 22:13:51

30th October

Hi all

With a major part of the Stringybark Creek redevelopment project now completed a number of the stakeholders attended the final meeting of the SRG at SBC on the 28th October.

Despite having to deal with their other work commitments the Mansfield and Benalla DSE personal have carried out most if not all of the work on the much needed upgrade of this historic area. (Benalla being fortunate enough to have an excellent stonemason on their staff)

Following lunch we had a leisurely walk around the linking tracks to the marked sites and the newly erected shelter at the camping ground. All of the stakeholders were quite impressed with the results of this project.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Sunday October 24th
Although I was camping at SBC, October 22nd - 24th, I wasn’t ‘free’ to join Bill’s group.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Police tent eyelets
I have always thought the eyelets on the police tent would probably be brass or a similar product and have often said “ If eyelets were found and verified as being from the right era they could very well assist in determining the true site”
Then again they may have been relocated by a dozer blade or miners who frequented the area or by logs being snigged through the area to a landing.

Bye for now

Sheila

bill denheld
Advanced Member

Australia
159 Posts

Posted - 31/10/2010 : 12:15:52

Hello all,
I have noticed that the function for external links have been blocked.

Normal non member public visitors to this forum are being denied access to the External links that are vital in this discussion.

For instance here is my SBC document http://www.ironicon.com.au/stringybark_ck_the_authentic_location.pdf br /
www dot ironicon dot com dot au / stringybark_ck_the_authentic_location dot pdf

If you are not logged in or are a non member visitor instead of the link you will get
" You must be logged in to see this link "

Bruce, can you please explain why this is so ?

Bill

Edited by - bill denheld on 01/11/2010 09:50:16

kellycountry2000
Forum Admin

Australia
769 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2010 : 12:18:01

Bill said
"I have noticed that the function for external links have been blocked. "

Bill that means you are not logged on,
either you are using somebody elses PC
or your browser has not auto logged you on
or you are not a member.

You have to be a registered member to gain full access,
this is standard practice for most forum software,
usually pictures or links are blocked until you join.

At the moment I have set access so the posts can be read by the public,
usually its set to fully registered members only.
and i have turned off the auto sign up to stop spammers
if people want full access, then they need to join.

If you get the message
" You must be logged in to see this link "
that means you need to be a fully registered member AND LOGGED ON, to access that link
most people understand that.

I am a member of many forums and their software does the same thing.

Joe.D
Advanced Member

Australia
783 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2010 : 15:31:42

Hi all,

A great day had by all,

On Sunday 31st the team in the photo spent the day at Stringybark Creek. The true campsite was close to where this photo was taken (and its not near the two huts place).

Joe.D

www.kellyhaunts.org

bill denheld
Advanced Member

Australia
160 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2010 : 15:40:04

Yes Bruce, I understand we must be a member logged on to make a posting.

Why can we all see a picture with an external web address as in www. and ending with . JPG and why then are not allowed to see
a web address ending with . html or .pdf ???

Bruce, your explanation is not correct. Please make the settings so anyone can read external webpage content whether they are a member or not.

A casual reader who is not logged in can do no damage to this forum, but is not able to read my webpage links.

A spammer who is logged in can read my webpage and make a posting - so why block my webpage for casual readers.

Bill